Top 35 – October 4

The rankings are slowly expanding, as I try to mash in teams that weren’t in the top 25 but have played tournaments with teams that were in the top 25 and have played something. IT IS DIFFICULT. So, these are probably really bad rankings.

It should be noted that last year in the final pre-nationals rankings, the 100th team had a PPB of about 19.

They aren’t in there yet, but I’m sure Arcadia B and East Chapel Hill will be showing up in the rankings at some point.

(No puns this time, though I did fight off the temptation to basically pull quotes from Pokemon Silver/Gold’s radio and haphazardly paste them around. LOYOLA’s is so cool, no? DUNBAR A is too picky!)

Dropping out: Walt Whitman (14)

1. Hunter (NY) (1)
2. Bellarmine (CA) (2)
3. Centennial (GA) (3)
4. Auburn (IL) (4)
5. LASA (TX) (6)

6. duPont Manual (KY) (7)
7. Dunbar A (KY) (8) – Danville Fall Tournament (HT22, 576.8 ppg, 9.5 15pg, 24.46 ppb)
8. Georgetown Day School (DC) (9) – Maryland Fall (IS107, 407.9 ppg, 6.7 15pg, 21.76 ppb)
9. St. Anselm’s (DC) (5) – Maryland Fall (IS107, 441.7 ppg, 7.3 15pg, 21.28 ppb)
10. IMSA (IL) (10)

11. University School of Nashville (TN) (11)
12. Dorman (SC) (12)
13. Carbondale (IL) (13)
14. Montgomery Blair (MD) – Maryland Fall (IS107, 408.8 ppg, 6.6 15pg, 22.00 ppb)
15. St. Joseph’s (NJ) – Maryland Fall (IS107, 383.8 ppg, 6.1 15pg, 21.80 ppb)

16. Loyola (IL) (15)
17. Rancho Bernardo (CA) – UCLA TWAIN (IS107, 359.0 ppg, 4.4 15pg, 21.58 ppb)
18. Ladue Horton Watkins (MO) (16)
19. Seven Lakes (TX) (17)
20. Cistercian (TX) (18)

21. Santa Monica (CA) – UCLA TWAIN (IS107, 375.5 ppg, 4.2 15pg, 21.32 ppb)
22. Mission San Jose (CA) (19)
23. Richard Montgomery (MD) (22) – Maryland Fall (IS107, 384.2 ppg, 5.9 15pg, 20.85 ppb)
24. Thomas Jefferson (VA) (20) – Maryland Fall (IS107, 333.9 ppg, 6.0 15pg, 18.88 ppb)
25. Enloe (NC) – Tar Heel Cup 2011 (HT22, 427.5 ppg, 6.4 15pg, 22.40 ppb)

26. Arcadia A (CA) (24) – UCLA TWAIN (IS107, 403.5 ppg, 4.6 15pg, 20.95 ppb)
27. Hunter B (NY) (21)
28. St. Paul Central (MN) (23)
29. Olmsted Falls (OH) (25)
30. Torrey Pines (CA) – UCLA TWAIN (IS107, 346.5 ppg, 4.9 15pg, 20.41 ppb)

31. Early College at Guilford (NC) – Tar Heel Cup 2011 (HT22, 448.3 ppg, 7.1 15pg, 21.49 ppb)
32. Northmont (OH) – Danville Fall Tournament (HT22, 431.4 ppg, 6.3 15pg, 21.41 ppb)
33. Dunbar B (KY) – Danville Fall Tournament (HT22, 424.6 ppg, 6.4 15pg, 21.01 ppb)
34. Raleigh Charter (NC) – Tar Heel Cup 2011 (HT22, 410.8 ppg, 4.7 15pg, 21.17 ppb)
35. Ezell-Harding (TN) – DAR High School Opener (IS107, 378.1 ppg, 3.3 15pg, 19.40 ppb)

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30 thoughts on “Top 35 – October 4

    • Well, I added the top 10 (11, really) performances of the season so far to my preseason top 25. Since DCC hasn’t played yet and weren’t in the preseason top 25, no, no DCC yet. I’m sure they will be when they play a tournament with a stat line.

  1. Just a question about the California teams. Arcadia’s A and B teams both finished higher in the TWAIN tournament than Santa Monica and Rancho Bernardo as we double qualified for HSCNT through this tournament. We had a higher PPG and PowerPG and, statiscally were only outdone in the bonus conversion. In a head to head match, Arcadia A defeated Rancho Bernardo A 360-195. Just saying.

    • In looking at the tournament stats, Arcadia’s B team had a 395 ppg, a 5.2 15pg, with a low 19.40 ppb. This is why they also beat Santa Monica in a close game and lost to Rancho Bernardo by only 25. We appreciate your work in assembling the rankings and it always gives us fun scenarios to discuss. Thanks!

  2. Is there any reason why DCC isn’t in your Top 35? At first, I thought it might have been a lack of detailed stats from tournaments this year, but then I saw that there were 9 teams outside of the top 10 with no stats yet. If you’re basing this on last year’s performances at nationals, I feel that returning the second highest scorer on an A team that came in 13th at HSNCT and 10th at PACE as well as most of a team that came in 8th at HSNCT and 29th at PACE should warrant a top 35 mention here.

      • Saying that DCC isn’t ranked in this post because you didn’t rank them in the previous one doesn’t answer anyone’s questions. I’d like to know what your rationale is behind not having DCC in any of your rankings this year based on what current members of the team were able to do at nationals last year.

      • Not only that, but you’ve failed to provide ANY explanation as to why my alma mater, North Providence HS, remains unranked. What’s your rationale?
        Alan Wright
        Brown ’15

      • Alan, I would venture a guess as to his rationale: your school has not participated in what this rankings thread rightfully deems ‘quiz bowl’ in any recent times. There are in fact 2 opportunities for you to do so, as there are two tournaments at Yale University which is presumably in driving distance for you since it’s only 2 hours away and many serious, top 25-ranked teams are known to travel much greater distances to attend tournaments. I refer you to this upcoming tournament at Yale, which would provide a baseline for Fred and others to compare your seemingly great school to the tons of other great schools that participate in quiz bowl: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/21/

  3. I’m in agreement with Ryan here on DCC, they’re definitely underranked. And LASA should be good this year, but I don’t see how they’re going to all of a sudden be a Top Ten team after losing all of LASA A.

  4. Welcome back Fred!

    I must admit that I independently came to the conclusion that DCC somehow was overlooked and deserved to be in your Top 35, probably in your Top 10-15, so I scrolled down to post and I serendipitously discovered Ryan Dillon’s post above on the same theme. We at SJHS played both their A & B Teams at the HSNCT last May and both were stellar, and my guess is they have enough fire-power returning from those 2 teams to field a team that will be a force once again nationally this year. Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately, we might get to play them at Thomas Jefferson’s OLEFIN this weekend in a pretty talented field, and my guess is they will acquit themselves quite well there, so that by the next time you do this ranking, DCC will probably rise to it’s appropriate place in your rankings.

  5. I think you heavily overrated Rancho Bernardo. IS107 seemed significantly easier than previous IS sets, so the stats put up aren’t as impressive as they might seem.

  6. Best team in Maryland* is not Whitman, WJ, or RM for the first time in as long as I’ve been playing quizbowl and for many years prior to that.
    (*But does Blair have the staying power? Is that 22ppb just an NAQT thing or does Blair really convert better than St. Anselm’s? And can a fully-manned A-team bring up that bonus conversion for RM? The plot thickens!)

    • Blair is a very good NAQT team that failed to translate that success into success at Maryland Spring last year. None of the pieces there have changed, so I don’t see that fact changing. I’ll be happy if they prove me wrong though.

    • The lowest ranked team pre-nats last year with a ppb of at least 22 on a regular IS set was, I believe, Enloe at 46th. This is excluding LASA C, which did have 22.34 on IS96 and were ranked 77th, but that had more to do with their status as a C team and uncertainty with their roster as anything else.

  7. Hello Mr. Morlan,

    I see that, yet again, you have neglected to rank North Providence High School. At this point, I am beginning to believe that this is not simple error, but some sort of malicious overlooking of our team. While it is true we have not played a tournament yet this year, we return 3 out of 4 members of a championship Rhode Island Quiz League team, one that coach Mark Garcia of Narragansett called, “One of the best teams I have ever seen play, period.” While we will lose some scoring with Alan’s graduation, it is clear to me we are still a top-25 team.

    However, while I completely disagree with you and think they are stupid, I appreciate you taking the time to make these rankings.

  8. I find it curious that South Burlington – by some metrics currently the best team in the nation – is not ranked here. It is also strange that you have Dunbar’s A team ranked here, but not Dunbar D! The data clearly show that Dunbar D is expected to win 58% of its matches against Dunbar A.

    What poppycock!

  9. Like, this isn’t difficult. You guys have seemingly never actually played quiz bowl before other than some dubious at best local format that nobody else has ever played on. Despite the fact that it would be impossible to compare teams between that format and real quiz bowl so your placement would be a random guess, you are literally not allowed to be considered for this ranking unless you have played real quiz bowl recently, which you have not done. I invite you to make the 2 or so hour trip to Yale University to participate in such an activity and either prove not only Fred but all of us wrong or realize the drastic error you have made. Here are links to two tournaments at Yale:

    http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12028

    http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12173

    • Look, we clearly have differing definitions of what constitutes “Quiz Bowl.” I have been more than accommodating with people like Mr. Morlan and yourself, even going so far as SENDING A PACKET FROM THE RHODE ISLAND QUIZ LEAGUE, which I’m barred from doing per the rules of the league! Furthermore, I don’t know why you, “Joe Wilson,” seem so qualified to be making a value judgment of what is and isn’t Quiz Bowl. This is a subjective thing! You can’t just say one thing has more merits than the other!
      I am willing to concede, even, that there could be separate national and Rhode Island Quiz League rankings! But I don’t see why they shouldn’t be merged. This just seems obstinate on your part.

      • Look, Alan, Brown has historically been one of the strongest quiz bowl programs among colleges. Just go to one of their quiz bowl practices and see what questions and formats they use. If you claim to be among an august cadre of high school players, go ahead and try your hand at the lower level of college questions, which are generally below high school nationals level questions. And while Joe alone might not be able to authoritatively declare that his form of quiz bowl is better, this has been the general consensus among teams that are interested in learning academic material, as evidenced by the mass defection from the bad NAC to the good HSNCT.
        “This is a subjective thing! You can’t just say one thing has more merits than the other!”
        That’s the definition of subjective. He is subjectively claiming that NAQT and HSAPQ have more value as academic competition than Rhode Island Quiz League. Of course, you have to establish criterion before you make value judgments, but if his implied criterion is that good quiz bowl has infinitely more academic and recreational value than your form, then he’s right. And if you wish to prove that your questions are in fact equivalent in value and that your alma mater merits a high ranking, then merely goad said alma mater’s team into driving 2 hours to a tournament open to any team across the country rather than simply one open to Rhode Island teams.

      • Yeah, go play a round or two against Guy or Ian, and if you can keep up at all then come back here and complain about Rhode Island Quiz League not being considered.

  10. Alan,
    I think the point that everyone is trying to make is that there is no way to compare North Providence to anyone because no one else plays “Rhode Island Quiz League”, and North Providence does not play NAQT, HSAPQ or . A quick search of your team on NAQT’s website shows that North Providence has never played an NAQT event.

    How would your team do against any other these other teams? I don’t know, and neither do you. If your team were to play in some kind of event outside of the Rhode Island quiz league (several options in your area listed in previous posts), Fred and others would have some data to work with, and if justified, I am sure would rank you. Complaining about something when no one on these boards has any idea about you or your team is ridiculous. Just because a school might be the best in their state doesn’t mean anything comparitively. There are probably 5 or 6 teams in Illinois alone better than the best team in a lot of states.

  11. Concerning teams in Texas, you might find these results somewhat helpful from the Oct. 8, 2011 tournament.

    Final results were:
    Cistercian ‘B’ – 1st
    Cistercian ‘A’ – 2nd
    Seven Lakes ‘A’ – 3rd

    cf.: http://www.texasquizbowl.org/d/@111008VK/index.html

    NB: These are very incomplete results, so their value may be limited.

    Thanks to Chris Romero and his team — they did an excellent job at Katy/Seven Lakes tournament.

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